Interview: Bob Kronbauer
What time did you wake up at today?
12:30 pm. It was an early day here for me. The alarm went off at noon, I got up at 12:30. So it takes 4 rounds of beeps to get me up past noon. Should I talk about how I don't go to bed until 6:30 am? I like to watch the sun come up.
Yeah, that's what I was wondering, what kind of hours you run. When you worked in an office, did you ever sleep under your desk?
Only when the catalog deadline was looming ...before tradeshows. I lived close enough where I could just go home most of the time, but I definitely spent sleepless nights at the computer and some under the desk. So how come you're not working in an office anymore? Is there anything you miss about it?
I miss having a schedule a little bit. I end up staying up all night, which really isn't good for your mood. I don't miss commutes or feeling tied down. I'm not much of a self-starter really. I like having a list of things to work on and due dates for that stuff. I know now why most artists go mad. There was one point during winter when I hadn't left the house for 10 days or something. That can't be good. It's mostly a weather/seasonal thing but I think it's just tough for me to combine art and business together. I'm still trying to figure out how to make that happen well. They're diametrically opposed to one another. It's like trying to put a round peg in a square hole...I just don't think it's natural to intertwine the two at this point.
To you and with what you're doing, what's the difference between fine art and commercial art?
This may be a very microcosmic way of looking at it, but for me, that difference starts and ends in the in the brain...in conception of whatever you're creating. I have always tried to approach skateboard graphics the way that I would approach a painting. It wasn't until really late in my career that I thought, 'wow. this stuff is being bought and sold just like everything else in the world.' I really had blocked that part out of my brain. After I realized that every skateboard is designed to be sold, (regardless of what company it's for) it really messed with my head a little. I had opened the floodgates and allowed that little slice of self-doubt to creep in. "will it sell?' "will kids like it?" "will shops buy it?" millions of questions pour in when you open that gate. The harder I'd try, the worse the results were. I think that taught me a lot about the creative process.
Element was the first time in my life that I had someone 'directing' my artwork. The term 'art direction' is a contradiction in a way. And it's nothing against Element, I'd just never been in that position before. Generally, I'm hired for what I've done and people want that same approach and style but skateboarding is a business. And it doesn't matter what company you're talking about, that company is around to profit, make money, etc. I came into something that was already established and, as a result, I had to somehow fit in visually while maintaining my own style. Skateboard graphics have always been easy for me because I have fun doing them. When I have to consciously focus on trying hide my personal style or set out with some kind of plan, it becomes really hard for me all of the sudden.
In the 'real world', businesses want to see money and profits on whatever they're making and selling. I understand that part of it, so when someone is telling you exactly what they want and you end up jumping through that hoop of fire, I guess that's commercial art. If you want to stay fed and pay your bills, you have to do things like jump through the flaming hoop of fire once in a while. I don't like the term 'fine art' either but I'll play around with it. I guess 'fine art' is when you draw what you want and how you want it and hope that someone relates to it or likes it.
To me, that's just art. Whether it's hanging in a gallery or shoved under the bed. When you can trick someone (a client or company) into accepting 'fine art' as 'commercial art' is really the only time that you win. Othewise, if you just do what people want all day and interpret other peoples' ideas, you may as well become a plumber or something. The feeling isn't there. The soul
has been exorcised and what you are left with is this hollow image that doesn't really stand for anything. It's like a ghost on paper...it's there, it's floating around but people generally can't relate to it or feel it.
Cool. You pretty much nailed what I've been trying to figure out for a few weeks since I was asked that question myself. Do you ever think about what it would be like if you had never worked in the skateboard industry?
Yeah, I think about that quite a lot. Especially these days. The one thing I know for sure is that I would have kept skating regardless. The graphics that I've done were inspired by being a skateboarder. As much as I loved art, I think I always loved skating more. It's just that as I get older, art is a lot easier than skateboarding and I can make money off of it. I wish I still had the energy and recovery power that a 16 year old has. But I'm getting up there. I hurt my ribs last year and they hurt for three months straight. 10 years ago, it wouldn't have even slowed me down but these days, it keeps me out for a while. Sometimes I look down at my wrists and I can't imagine what I'd do if I broke my right arm. Being an artist is like being a carnie. It really is. You have no insurance, not much stability, you sometimes have to threaten people to get paid...it's not a life for everyone. It would probably be an easier life to just go to school and become an art professor or something like that.
I don't know. I would have probably kept on working at newspapers doing illustration and design. I always wanted to write a book so maybe I would have persued that. Maybe I'd be at Wal-Mart or something. I'm not very driven or ambitious. I have my moments where I'm a workaholic and I feel like I'm fairly responsible but I don't have that killer drive that some people do who juggle all kinds of shit. I like life. I like to kick back and enjoy it...I like to start my day off slow and I like it to end reasonably slow. Sometimes I watch those people who slowly kill themselves for a living, always looking for more power, more money, more everything and I feel fortunate that I was never in a position like that where I had to catch myself and back out. I've just tried do do what I love, let it come naturally, have fun with it and not take it for granted or push it too hard. I kind of know what it's like to feel like I'm on my death bed and wonder why I let certain things pass me by. So after I had that second chance, I feel like I took advantage...I slowed down, I stressed less, I never push things too hard. If something is meant to be, it'll happen. If not, think of all the fun you can have digging yourself out of a hole. There's nothing as inspiring as having to start over. There's nothing as motivating as being at rock bottom. I've been there before...it's not so bad.
Do you want to talk about what happened with your heart?
Yeah... I always had an irregular heartbeat. It was mild enough to where it was undiagnosed until I was in college but I always knew something wasn't right with it. I had bad anxiety and panic attacks and never knew why. I just thought I was maladjusted and nervous. Anyway, it went crazy for a minute...after it got back to normal I was afraid to drive, I was on these pills that were killing me, they told me I'd always have to stay on them. It was crazy. Fortunately, I'm OK but there was a time when I just wasn't sure. There was one night when I thought my number was up and that one night was all it took. These days, I realize how stress and worry can literally kill someone. I probably read 30 books about psychosomatic illnesses, the placebo effect, mind/body connections, meditation. I guess that really took me into the goth period of my life....the memento mori...the realization that death can happen at any time. Kind of creeped me out.
Do you still feel like you're in a goth period? If not, what period of your life would you say you're in right now?
I would say it's post-goth maybe. I did a really long interview with with a magazine from Spain and the editor kept asking me about goth stuff because he'd read that old Crownfarmer interview. It was really funny. I'm not goth at all, really. I was always a fan of The Cure but that's about as goth as it got. You know though...I liked The Smiths, Joy Division, Elliott Smith...all of these musicians that were considered all Gloom and doom. But to me, it was just solid music with good lyrics. People would consider me a pessimist but I just thought of myself as a realist. There's a difference. And the only authors I've really been able to relate to were those crazy, drunken existentialists..camus, sartre, dostoyevsky. I like facing the idea that things aren't always perfect and may not be in life. I like really old horror movies, I like bats, I like things like grim reapers and shit like that. I don't know. Maybe I am goth. Goth and proud.
Maybe you're in a goth denial period? What period were you in when you got your Astroboy tattoo? I read something recently on why you got it and I decided to stop bugging you about it because I thought it was really rad what you said. Do you want to repeat that here?
Oh, man. I'm in my Astroboy tattoo denial phase. I was young when I got it. I drew it up myself and made all these changes to the character. I can't remember talking about why I got it, but the idea at the time was that I hoped it would keep me young. Astroboy is strong, but he's still just a boy. I wanted to remind myself that just because you get old, you don't have to quit having fun or lose the qualities of youth. Plus, I drew him in the launch position...he's always going up, it's just another reminder that you have to keep moving forward in life. I've thought about getting it covered up several times but I just can't bring myself to do it. It may have been a mistake, but like all the other ones, it's mine and I can live with it. Wow. That's not very goth. I guess I could get some bats tattooed up there flying along beside of him. Have you seen my other tattoos? I've dripping now. Just dripping in ink. Does Katie [Bob K's wife] still have the tattoo of the giraffe I drew or did she get it covered up?
I would tell you that she got it covered up with an Astroboy tattoo but I said that I wasn't gonna bug you about Astroboy anymore so I guess I have to stick with it. So yep, she still has your giraffe on her arm, and we both still love it. She says that her next one's going to be an old school textbook-style rainbow trout. Awesome. Did you go fishing much growing up? I picture WV having a lot of really good fishing holes.
The trout will make good company for the giraffe. I can see Astroboy, the trout and the giraffe all having a gnarly party. I did used to fish a lot when I was growing up. My dad was really into fishing so we got to go all over the place. We'd always stop before we got to the lake and pick up a Slim Jim and a can of Mountain Dew. Good times. I'd even bait my own hook as a kid. I don't think I ever kept or ate any of the fish because I would end up with Blue Gill and other little ones, but it was fun just to go out and hang out with my dad. I didn't do it much as I got older, but I'd still be down to hit up a lake here and there. I'm not much the outdoors type anymore. I guess I became modernized where I'm always connected to something plugged in. It's a shame, really. Do you go after the big ones? I always used a bobber...stayed close to the edge of the lake and mossy areas...you know, always reeling in a big turd made out of moss and lake crap.
Katie and I go fishing quite a bit, and we catch a lot of turds. Mostly casting from shore for trout that are usually about a pound or less. It's a lot about getting away from the computer and everything and spending time together, but we're on a serious mission for fish when we're out there. Big, small, it's just really rewarding to reel one in. What was that book that you gave to Megan Baltimore called? The one about the kids in the small town where you grew up? I read it a long time ago and I remember really liking it but I can't remember the name of it. Have you been reading much lately?
Do you guys eat the fish or just toss them back? I don't eat fish really. I have, but it's just not in my food rotation. I hate sushi for the obvious reasons.
That book is called 'Crum,' by Lee Maynard. It was really hard to find for a while because it was out of print but they're publishing it again now. My dad grew up near Crum and it's a good portrayal of early West Virginia I suppose and a really good read. West Virginia has really produced some original characters over the years....Jesco White being the most 'original.' Dancing Outlaw and all that. Good stuff. I haven't been reading much...not like I used to. When I do, it's usually a biography or historical account of something or other. Recently, I read a story about Edgar Allen Poe's death...how it's still a bit of a mystery. A book about Ian Curtis that his wife wrote about his life and suicide. Big Nothing, about Elliott Smith. I get fascinated by the lives of creative people... whether they're dead or alive. I get inspired by people who continually create music, art, literature, whatever. I have a lot of favorite musicians and writers, but not many favorite artists. I'm not sure why. I read once where Elliott Smith claimed he wished he could create visual art rather than music. Ridiculous! Anyone can paint. Ever tried playing the guitar? I have and it's not easy. Writing a song? Ridiculous. Creating a painting...there's no wrong way! You just start slopping paint around. And then it sits in a corner somewhere or in a closet. Music gets out there if it's good, it gets appreciated. Visual art just becomes this burden to carry around with you that you have to find space for. You can't compress a painting into an MP3 and pass it around or play it in your car. What were we talking about?
We were talking about fishing, but I think we went as far with it as we should. Did you like that Elliott Smith book? And did you hear that Kurt Vonnegut died today? How do you feel about that?
I didn't care for the book much. It's one of those situations where someone who didn't know the person is trying to describe him and a lot gets lost. I'd say you could learn a lot more about Elliott from listening to his music than reading a bio. But everyone trying to make sense of his suicide was looking for an answer and that's the only book out about him. Maybe we're not supposed to know about peoples' personal lives as a fan. Maybe it kills the mystique or cheapens the process of enjoying the art itself. Maybe that's why I like bios about people who died young. You try to put the pieces together and figure out what went wrong. It's like playing amateur sleuth. Can you imagine if Morrissey would have died young? The world would be a completely different place. OK, I'm half joking about that but look at history...people sometimes don't relate to someone or their work until after they've died and that's kind of sad. If it's a musician like Nick Drake, you're left wondering...what if he would have lived to continue to write and record? And suddenly it's romanticized and everything that 'could have been' instantly becomes brilliant and genius and they're exonerated and forgiven for not ever producing it. When I heard about Kurt Vonnegut, I instantly thought of the Breakfast of Champions shirt. I'm not kidding. I was like, 'I wonder if Bob is going to be OK.' Again, another brilliant guy who died but at least he lived a pretty full life. Did you ever notice how everyone had some connection to Kurt Vonnegut or his family? He was like the Kevin Bacon of the literature world. Everything eventually came back to him.
I'm fine with it, I think the dude lived way longer than a lot of people expected him to and he wrote his best stuff decades ago so there's really no "what kind of brilliance would he have produced if he had lived?" mystery. I read a bunch of news stories about his passing and they kept bringing up this quote that he said about Hemingway ending his life with a period and how he thought a death from old age is more like a semi colon. I thought that was pretty funny. Let's talk about exclusivity. How come you didn't show your work in art shows for a long time?
Yeah, it's hard to feel bad about a guy who's died who had a long, productive life. The art show thing wasn't really intentional. As you know, I grew up in a small town in West Virginia. There were a lot of things I couldn't relate to as a result of that. Tagging is one. 'Street art' is another. I just think that I was a product of my surroundings so I just wasn't into it. When it became the hot thing to promote at galleries, I just didn't get how skateboarding was lumped together with tagging and urban street art. I guess I was a skateboarding purist and maybe I was a little older than most at the time in skating. Because I was a 'skateboard artist,' I was getting asked to do a lot of shows in bigger galleries as a kind of nobody and again, I just didn't get it. A good example was that a gallery in LA called and said, 'we'd like you to do a two-man show with Ryan McGinness.' And I was like, 'Who's Ryan McGuinness?' And the curator was very offended that I'd never heard of him and I guess she thought I was being a dick. It would be situations like that. I live in Dayton, Ohio! How am I supposed to know who this artist is and that artist is? I knew skateboarding, I didn't know art really. And people would invite me to other group shows and there wouldn't be any other skateboarders and I just wouldn't do the show because I didn't want my artwork hung beside of non-skateboard stuff. Maybe it would have been a great opportunity if I was trying to make money or become a known artist, but I just didn't want that. That was the bottom line. I was doing skateboard graphics, I loved doing them and I wasn't looking to make a name outside of skateboarding in the art world.
If I can do a small show at a small gallery here and there, I'm stoked to do it. If it involves a friend or other skateboarders, I'm definitely into it. I think there will be more skateboarders at these little shows than artists and I dig on that. I may not be able to sell a piece for $1,000 but I can have fun with it, meet some people and keep it mellow. This one that I have coming up in Louisville, the gallery is small, you know because it's in KY that it's not an easy feat to get a gallery open and keep it going. No offense to Louisville...I know the skate scene is really rad there but in some states, it's just tough to open a gallery and keep it going. So I was stoked that there were these people who were giving it a shot and were nice enough to ask me to come and show some paintings. I asked if my friend Dave Ackels could show his stuff too and they were down. So it just worked out really well.
Growing up skateboarding I think that every kid dreams of becoming pro one day. I know I did. At what point did you realize that you wouldn't be making a living off of the act of shredding? Was it like a clear moment that you can remember or did it just sort of happen?
I remember when I had to make a serious decision about it. I had torn ligaments in my front ankle and it set me back about a year as far as progression goes. I didn't have insurance at the time and couldn't really afford to take care of it, go through rehab and the other stuff that would have probably kept it from hindering me. So I spent 6 months trying to relearn tricks and make my front foot flip the board the way that it used to. My friend, John Drake, was moving to Dayton because he got picked up by Alien Workshop and was skating with Dyrdek all the time. John wanted me to move to Dayton too but I was still in school so I had to make a decision to stay and get my degree. After John left, I didn't really have anyone to push me the way that he did (he was always much better than me but it's good to have someone to skate with that's better than you) and I just quit keeping up with it. At that time, the small wheels/big pants movement made it's way through skating...I would go to a spot and kids who had only been skating a year would be filming pressure flips going 2 miles per hour and It just bummed me out on skating overall. I kept at it but my heart wasn't in it as far as trying to kill myself for videos or whatever. I just figured I'd racked up a bunch of student loan debt and I needed to focus on getting out of school and trying to make a living.
I don't have any regrets though...I look back on my footage and I could do some hard tricks and had a lot of fun, but my style was gross. Some people just naturally have style and some don't. I didn't. John had really good, natural style so I've always liked to watch guys that make everything look effortless. I wasn't one of those guys. So a pro career for me would have been on a crap team and would have been short lived if it had happened. It's funny though because I used to draw these mock graphics for John when he was skating for Assault (prior to him getting on AWS) and eventually I got to do pro graphics for him at AWS so that was a really rad moment for me. Drake is in Charlotte, NC now doing a shop called Atmosphere. So if you're in the area, go buy something. John is one of those guys that I'll always be friends with and I owe him a lot over the years. If you want to see the ankle footage, I have it digitized from VHS on my computer somewhere. It's pretty gross.
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